Y'all are a bunch of wankers!

Guys who want you to work for free

Like develop some stuff for them for free. Used to scorn at you guys for such a myopic mercantilist attitude but it makes perfect sense.

Told you I can get $50k from a Romanian government program which sponsors startups, provided I come up with a credible business plan. So I met some guys / retail traders who were interested in my using my software and wanted it enhanced (like, a lot of stuff). Which is necessary and useful but takes time and time is money. So I told them on those $50k which is a welcome infusion but doesn't cover the costs of development. I have to hire two devs for two years on those money, on top of paying office space and expenses so even if stuff is cheaper here, it's still not *that* cheap. I may get some call-center guys at those money but not devs and certainly not quant devs or rather the material from which I'll make quant devs out of them since I'm the only guy in town who does this shit.

So I offered them this deal: I'm further paying a monthly rate of $500-$1000 out of my pocket as long as they also do it in exchange for both having the software done and getting equity in the business.

Their answer: [crickets].

Eventually responded they're not interested in paying but still would like me to develop it for free.
Which won't happen. Free doesn't cut it and if they won't invest $24k to get $100k worth of software it means they are not capable of using that software in a form which returns their investment. Or would pay for it.
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 2:29am
People are often keen on ideas beneficial to them until you ask for money.
Permalink Scott Adams 
February 10th, 2018 3:44am
newsflash: people like free stuff
Permalink . 
February 10th, 2018 6:41am
>> newsflash: people like free stuff

Well if they like it this implies there's some value in it. But if they aren't willing to pay for it, then there's none.
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 10:39am
If your brilliant business idea depends on finding competent people willing to work for below-market rates, then you don't have a viable business idea.
Permalink FSK 
February 10th, 2018 10:39am
If I could find John Carmack willing to work for me for $5/hour and equity then, sure, I could make a hit indie game no problem.
Permalink FSK 
February 10th, 2018 10:40am
>> If your brilliant business idea depends on finding competent people willing to work for below-market rates, then you don't have a viable business idea.

That's why I need co-investors. I'm putting my own money (that I get from my job) and extra time I'm left after the job, plus an extra $50k from the government grant. And it's still not enough :)

Looks like the thing I need first is clients so I'm gonna concentrate in that direction. Made some calculations and the license per month would cost in the $150-$200 for retail traders and $800-$900 for the institutional ones. This includes ongoing costs (I have to purchase services from other providers as well) and running costs.

Problem's I have to sell the skin of the bear from the woods (product's not ready yet although it's an MVP).
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 10:46am
"Competent people willing to work for below-market rates" and "co-investors willing to work for equity" are exactly the same thing.
Permalink FSK 
February 10th, 2018 10:53am
I told you Io, the solution is: you become a retail trader yourself and use your superior software to drive these cheap charlies out of business.
Forget the software business man. Being a software vendor is like being an artist. You have to find a rich guy or corporate executive that likes your art, to be your patron and bankroll you. Small and medium size companies cannot afford custom development.
Like most artists, it's unlikely that you will find your rich guy, more likely you will end up broke living in the streets.
Permalink Johnny Ekstrom 
February 10th, 2018 11:33am
That's what I use it for. If I can pay $500 / month out of my pocket, the other guy who claims himself a *succesful* retail trader also can. If he won't then he doesn't believe it's useful enough for him or that he's good enough to use it. So I'll carry on by myself.
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 11:48am
I won't pay for any trading software now. I used to think they were cool and smart until I discover the rule "buy low, sell high". Now I just do that myself.
Permalink DrNo 
February 10th, 2018 11:58am
>> Small and medium size companies cannot afford custom development.

Precisely because of that it's incompetence to pass on $50k worth of custom development, as a retail trader. But like WR discovered the great rule of buying low and selling high, these guys too discovered selling puts in a bull market. All's fine until the market plunges and they lose it all.
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 12:29pm
In the case of naked puts, my strategy is sell high/ close low or let it expires. ;-)
Permalink DrNo 
February 10th, 2018 1:14pm
Eventually there is some truth in measuring worth by measuring the amount of time spent.

After 9 hours of job + 1 of commute, add transient times to wake up, eat, switch context and relax a little, I get little time left for systematically producing value. Consider the need to also learn and understand new things, think about details and time spent tweaking and doing drudge work... there's a huge difference if the next two years I can allocate an average of 1.5 - 2 hours per day into this or an additional 16 (two employees).

Likely I'll have to carry on by myself though.
Permalink Io 
February 10th, 2018 2:32pm
Buy low sell high not only works but it is very very easy. Buy stocks in good companies. Then wait 30 years.

Advanced investors can during those 30 years, take some gap years and cycle the stock so you end up getting tax free gains.

Also consider that blue chips often pay fantastic dividends that are a hell of a lot better than a savings account, and on top of this you get the stock gain as well.

Investing is fucking easy, any moron can become a multi-millionare.

It takes a lot of work to be a stupid investor. I will say though that based on what I see, most people here are stupid investors doing shit like puts and daytrading. If you are not a Wall Street style trading corp with "special" access to the markets, that is all for suckers.

The common man investors that do dump shit though end up making the rest of the market work for us smart investors.

I got a fucking shit load of money in these stocks and a 100% success rate overall.

I don't need any of it. Most likely I'll die without cashing out.

That's the thing about being a professional with skills in a hot market. I can print my own money just by showing up at a job, and make a fuckton more than commoners. What do I need investment for?

Well the problem is I am a cheap skate and don't spent much and am making a fuckton of money, so I got to do something with it. I buy stocks and have tens of millions now, none of which I plan to do shit with.

I don't have any kids and all women are bitches. I'll probably leave the money to some charity or another. Maybe I'll leave it to my pet turtle.
Permalink Reality Check 
February 10th, 2018 2:45pm
I hoped you didn't own 100% of GE stock in your portfolio, RC. lol
Permalink DrNo 
February 10th, 2018 3:00pm
I meant to say GE stock is 100% of your investment. Have you seen GE lately?
Permalink DrNo 
February 10th, 2018 3:00pm
I bought a bunch of GE in 2009 when there was a panic and it went down to about $6. It was obviously worth more than that. I sold it at $30. That was a nice one.
Permalink Reality Check 
February 10th, 2018 3:07pm
Great timing, RC. I remember that. I did trade it in 2009 but I sold GE too early so I didn't get 30 bucks per share. it was more like 10ish. However, I never own it after that.
Permalink DrNo 
February 10th, 2018 3:14pm
There's no shame in earning a quick 40%. However based on the timing sounds like you sold before the window expired allowing you to apply the lower capital gains tax rate. That was foolish and probably wiped out all of your gains completely?

GE are warmongering psychopaths who manipulate government. So I wont told them long term. But I will gain at their expense. Undervalued stocks in questionable companies it's best to wait until they start to go above their reasonable worth, then dump at that point.
Permalink Reality Check 
February 10th, 2018 3:19pm
Io, have you tried getting up two hours earlier than you otherwise would and working on your software then? There's no-one around to disturb your concentration, and you're at your sharpest then anyway.
Permalink ,ndo 
February 10th, 2018 6:01pm
Plus, achievements in the morning puts you in a good mood for the rest of the day.
Permalink ,ndo 
February 10th, 2018 6:02pm
I'm no use before 8-9 o'clock. And it takes me 1-2 hours after waking up before I'm ready to do cognitive work. So I have to work in the evenings.

Plus in the morning there's the additional stress of the hard deadline when I have to go to work. If I encounter a harder problem, I know I won't have time to solve it and despair. In the evening I can just push a little further and finish it.
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 12:01am
Tried to wake up at 5 and ignore the biology of every cell in my body who cried they want to sleep.  Gulped a coffee, went outside in the cold for a run, came back, layed in bed and slept like a baby until 8. I'm not a morning riser.
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 12:16am
It takes about two weeks to adjust to the new sleeping pattern. Perhaps give it a go for three weeks and see how it goes?
Permalink ,ndo 
February 11th, 2018 4:29am
"I told you Io, the solution is: you become a retail trader yourself and use your superior software to drive these cheap charlies out of business."

No, that's silly. The best way to make money on trading is to sell software or data to traders. Just look at Bloomberg. At Lance Uggla (Markit). At Thomson-Reuters. They're quasi- or straight monopolies and are making money rain or shine.
Permalink Yoda 
February 11th, 2018 5:41am
>up at 5

You need to be preparing for bed around 20:00 and be asleep by 21:00 in order to achieve this.
Permalink Paris Hilton 
February 11th, 2018 5:45am
Can't do. Besides, I already get 2 hours in the evening, plus I can push for more if needed.
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 5:58am
>Can’t do

Why not?

It must be pretty obvious that if you’re not getting to sleep until midnight, getting up at 5 just isn’t going to work.
Permalink Paris Hilton 
February 11th, 2018 6:15am
Unless he can take a good nap at his regular job.
Permalink Lotti Fuehrscheim 
February 11th, 2018 6:40am
Darn, already told ya two times already, it doesn't work like "two hours". Sometimes I need more and having to interrupt and go to work fucks me up not just by breaking focus but to the point where I can't even motivate myself to start working on it.

You understand the concept of flow and harmful interruptions, don't you? And are aware that some geeks complain that event the thought of having a meeting prevents them to get in the flow prior to it. Well, I have a fucking 10 hours meeting each day and figured out the only way to concentrate is *after* it's over.
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 8:41am
my impression is that the people who get up very early are more successful.

This seems to be a common theme across all industries.
Permalink Rewq 
February 11th, 2018 8:47am
Surely. That's the explanation why the 14 hours days I've worked in the last 10 years didn't pan off. A small shift in the work schedule and I'll be millionaire within a week. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 9:03am
Also people who have their dick curved to the left are on the average more successful. So if your dick is unfortunately curved to the right, save yourself a lifetime of effort and either give up now or schedule a plastic surgery to correct the mistake.

By the way add a penis bleaching on top of that and it puts you waay ahead of the pack!
Permalink Io 
February 11th, 2018 9:08am
>people who have their dick curved to the left are on the average more successful.

Obviously!

This indicates they masturbate with their left hand.

Left-handed men have higher levels of testosterone.

They are more ambitious, driven, intelligent, masculine.

They are over represented at the highest levels in all kinds of things - tennis, F1, fighter pilots, chess grandmasters etc.
Permalink Paris Hilton 
February 11th, 2018 9:35am
They also have more accidents and live shorter on average.
Permalink Lotti Fuehrscheim 
February 11th, 2018 10:26am
They also have better sex and better reputations for being good in the cot because the majority of women's vaginas curve to the right.
Permalink ,ndo 
February 11th, 2018 3:16pm

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