No Brexit bill
I'm still predicting no deal.
They cobble together some bits, but basically WTO, and some advocating payments.
December 6th, 2017 6:11pm
I think you're underestimating the cunning of the British team.
They are as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.
December 6th, 2017 6:18pm
Davis gave the committee an 850 page document (containing sectoral analysis of 58 sectors).
The idea that they've done nothing is fake news.
However what seems to be the issue is whether it's assessments or analyses (both terms of art), and 1 document or many.
December 7th, 2017 2:23am
December 7th, 2017 2:24am
December 7th, 2017 2:37am
This is a statement by our beloved brexit secretary made in 2002:
"There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators."
"We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all. Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge."
"We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it."
December 7th, 2017 5:03am
Quite aside from Davis not being in the government at the time the referendum was called, it's a bit of a whig history to apply that to the 2016 referendum.
Because at the time, everybody on the leave and remain side (including David Cameron, Jeremy Corbyn, and all the MPs who voted for a referendum) thought no legislation was necessary on the fundamental issue of the referendum: whether the executive should invoke article 50.
You'll remember Cameron said he would invoke article 50 the morning after the referendum. And Corbyn said he should immediately invoke article 50.
It's only in retrospect after the Miller case, that it was clear legislation was needed to invoke article 50.
In any case, the house subsequently voted for article 50. And after an election,in which pro brexit parties got 85%, voted for a Queen's speech with a detailed legislative programme.
December 7th, 2017 6:13am
Nothing in that text is specific to A50.
December 7th, 2017 9:46am
> in which pro brexit parties got 85%
Neither is pro-breixt, the pro brexit MP's are a minority even if they do get a lot of press. FPTP completely distorts this as well.
December 7th, 2017 9:49am
December 7th, 2017 9:50am
> Neither is pro-breixt, the pro brexit MP's are a minority even if they do get a lot of press.
They put it in their manifesto.
Or are you saying that lots of remainers didn't know what they were voting for?
December 7th, 2017 10:03am
>Neither is pro-Brexit
To be clear, at the last election, both the Conservatives AND the Labour Party claimed to support Brexit.
Labour were basically lying.
...as indeed they were about...
Cancelling student loans retrospectively
Abolishing tuition fees
(Re)Nationalising the trains
(Re)Nationalising the electricity grid
Mogg for PM
December 7th, 2017 10:03am
> Nothing in that text is specific to A50.
Like a shyster lawyer looking for some magic loophole reading of the wording... look at yourself, you should be ashamed. In no other democratic vote would you look for some hypertechnical justification to ignore the result, because you don't like how it turned out.
Everybody knew, and everybody said, at the time, on both sides, that the referendum was about whether to leave the EU by instructing the executive to initiate article 50.
December 7th, 2017 10:08am
So, the UK's checked out, but can they leave?
December 7th, 2017 1:33pm
EU = the roach motel of trade agreements.
That really is the main remain argument now... it's just to hard to get out.
December 7th, 2017 2:39pm
Which is a pretty good argument, no?
December 7th, 2017 4:13pm
Yes and no.
It's a good argument if you all care about is economics and money, or you don't mind giving into blackmail.
It's not a good argument if you care about democracy. You have to remember the UK is a country that voluntarily liquidated all its wealth and power, twice in the last century, on a principle.
I argue it's not a good argument in the long run, even if all you care about right now is economics. 90% of remain voters in the UK are against a federal European state, but that's where europe is headed, and the UK can't stop it- so leaving eventually is inevitable... leaving after 40 years is hard... how much harder will it be after 50 or 60 years?
December 7th, 2017 4:49pm
I don't think Europe is headed towards a federal state.
FFS, I'm not sure how much longer the US will actually be united.
December 7th, 2017 8:09pm
>Everybody knew, and everybody said, at the time, on both sides, that the referendum was about whether to leave the EU by instructing the executive to initiate article 50.
Yet there was no mention of the exit bill or the UK disintegrating.
December 8th, 2017 1:15am
No, you guys said at the time that Scotland and NI might leave.
And the exit bill is supposedly money that we had committed to pay already if we stayed in. So if we'd have stayed in, we'd very still had to pay it, plus future connntributions.
December 8th, 2017 1:48am