Mean, sick, and poor is no way to go through life, son.

Bored Bystander, here is a book you might like

The Secret of Selling Anything by Harry Browne

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Selling-Anything-Harry-Browne-ebook/dp/B00M19W20Y

If you've read other selling books, you're probably tired of the false promises that never quite work out. You're probably tired of being told "you can do it if you just believe you can."

You're probably tired of reading about tricks that made a particular sale ~ tricks that may have been appropriate to a particular situation, but not yours ~ and even if they were appropriate, how would you have thought of them at the right time?

If you've read books on selling before or listened to "sales experts," you're probably tired of being pumped with hot air ~ told how you must "come alive," be full of enthusiasm, dominate the world around ~ all the things that don't happen to be a part of your basic nature.

Well, this book isn't anything like that. In fact, this book was written to refute many cliches of selling that have been accepted without question for years.

This book will prove to you, I hope, that the stereotyped image of the "born salesman" is a mistake. You don't have to remake your personality and become super-enthusiastic, super-aggressive, domineering. Not only are those traits not necessary, they are actually a hindrance to making sales.

And you won't have to develop that uncanny ability to come up with the right answer at the right time ~ that super-human knack of having the brilliant flash of insight that is so prevalent in books on selling. Sure, given several days to think about it, the writer of a sales book can always come up with a solution to a sales problem. But how does that help you when confronted face-to-face with a question that must be answered now? This book will show you that you don't need such skills.


-----

Thought I would mention you because you posted before about Marketing and Sales roles being superior to technical roles.  The author (who once ran for President) admitted he was an introvert as are a lot of techies.
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
August 11th, 2017 1:10pm
Thanks for the book, prez. I'll check it out. I can use something like that.

I didn't ever mean that sales roles were superior to tech roles. It all depends on what you want and what you can earn. A Google coder person probably earns more than 10+ typical freelancers and 2-3x more than most indie tech business people put together.

The attrition rate of relying on your sales skills instead of a payroll job is humongous. That's before any really good money starts rolling in.

It looked like a post of yours got deleted a few days ago by the lib thought police here.
Permalink Send private email Bored Bystander 
August 11th, 2017 2:03pm
Selling what people want is always easier than selling what people don't want.
Permalink WorldRoverski 
August 11th, 2017 2:17pm
If you can successfully sell someone something they don't want and don't need, you're a crook. But they're stupid, too.
Permalink Send private email Bored Bystander 
August 11th, 2017 2:25pm
Yeah, whenever you walk by the mall kiosks they always want you to change your cell phone providers and cable TV providers. You always say no or ask them why. Why do they want to sell you something that you don't need. Changing providers don't save you any money 9 out of 10 incidents.

In this day and age, pricing is similar everywhere. It is race to the bottom. Amazon is the extreme company in this market.
Permalink WorldRoverski 
August 11th, 2017 2:30pm
Two times libertarian presidential candidate.
Anti war. Friend of Ron Paul.

The book is only $7.

It looks like there is no way to go wrong here.
Permalink LP 
August 11th, 2017 5:11pm
Indeed. Will buy!
Permalink Send private email Bored Bystander 
August 11th, 2017 5:42pm
>Thought I would mention you because you posted before about Marketing and Sales roles being superior to technical roles.

Depends on where you are geographically located. Notice how BB mentioned "A Google coder" in his reply.

Problem (as I see it) is that our corporations and politicians have liquidated much of the middle class (which includes programmers) that lives in non-coastal cities and towns. They have been eliminated via outsourcing or replaced by visa workers.
Permalink One Programmer's Opinion 
August 11th, 2017 6:35pm
OK. I bought the book and read the first 7 chapters of it and skimmed through the rest.

It is as mentioned elsewhere 2 books - the second one appended to the first.

I found the first book (the chapters I read) to be more interesting but it was quite repetitive. Even the author admits it.

The second one was dealing with the regular steps in the sales process. I have read similar material in other books.

The main point the book is trying to make is that in free market both parties profit and there is no way sale will happen if one of the parties does not benefit. So think about selling as an exercise of cooperation - not competition.

"People only pay for what they want - so you will succeed only if you are providing people with what they want."

"The secret of success is: Find out what people want and help them get it!"

This is kind of anti climatic for most people I would guess. Maybe it was cutting edge when the book was written in the 60s?

There is good material there but is also quite dated. Talking about the phone as a new means of communication and mentioning new car prices - $3000 or $4000 :-)

I would give it 3 to 3.5 stars max considering the fact that is very inexpensive.
( Unfortunately the formatting is not very good either. )
Permalink LP 
August 11th, 2017 11:48pm
> Depends on where you are geographically located. Notice how BB mentioned "A Google coder" in his reply.

There are two areas in which IT people and developers are employed:

GoogleFacebookYahooDotComStartups

and

Corporate IT. (what used to be called MIS - the business is a user of IT, not a tech vendor.)

The good paying jobs in the first are clumped on the coasts. Mainly the left coast.

The latter is the offshoring meal ticket. Which is pretty much the decimation of the average dark matter programmer.


> "People only pay for what they want - so you will succeed only if you are providing people with what they want."
> This is kind of anti climatic for most people I would guess. Maybe it was cutting edge when the book was written in the 60s?

If you're a career techie, it can be quite grueling to truly grok - that is, deeply understand the idea of giving people what they want, in an IT framework. It all depends on context.

Most IT people never understand what their customers really want, because of distractions. To name a few: other developers; industry trends, news, and memes; and the baggage of having to envision each project as a resume stepping stone rather than a customer-needs fulfillment project.

Now, that's our job to be distracted with technology and process over business requirements, as IT people. But it means your brain is trained orthogonally with respect to customer requirements and satisfaction.

I'm also not talking about silly architecture  astronauts whacking off to the detriment of projects. I'm describing how much IT providers shove their normal productive developers into silos. In most environments we're criticized if we ask too many questions.

So, the principle is zen but probably expressed too simply without supporting context. Like, how do you make an IT enterprise client happy?
Permalink Send private email Bored Bystander 
August 12th, 2017 2:06am
I read the first seven chapters this morning and spent the rest of the day outside. I think LP might be judging it in the context of something that is not news to him and therefore marking it down as obvious (in hindsight). However, if judging it in absolute rather than relative terms, I think it is fairer to call it profound. I haven't read the other chapters yet.
Permalink , Cup 
August 12th, 2017 3:28am
"I think LP might be judging it in the context of something that is not news to him and therefore marking it down as obvious (in hindsight)."

This is fair criticism. Point taken.

In my defence - there a few places where the author mentions that while these ideas are simple he has not seen them presented in other books.

Again we have to remember that these couple of books were written in the 60s and for some reason the author decided not to publish them while he was alive.

Speaking of profound, one has to read the "Economics in one lesson" written in the 40s

https://mises.org/files/henry-hazlitt-economics-one-lessonpdf/download?token=xBmgeDG7

Back to the book we are discussing (the first 7 chapters) - after "sleeping on it" I think I have discovered another flaw:

While Browne is exactly correct when talking about that market forces he is talking about free market and to a large extent we don't have this anymore.

When trying to sell service to government organisation (large part of today's economy) you will have the situation where the person paying for the service is not the end user of the service. Yes the person paying will still look after his own interest and that's why we have things like nepotism and corruption.

Or let's say you want to sell your services to big corporation. The government will still screw up with the market forces through things like reverse discrimination.

So what can you do in this situation?

I am not advocating this at all but there was this case recently where an Indian guy could not get into medical school because his grades were low.
So he shaved his head, joined African-American organisation and applied as black person. It worked. Until he could not pass the exams.

So he wrote a book about this.
Permalink LP 
August 12th, 2017 10:26am
> Thanks for the book, prez. I'll check it out. I can use something like that.

No prob

> I didn't ever mean that sales roles were superior to tech roles. It all depends on what you want and what you can earn. A Google coder person probably earns more than 10+ typical freelancers and 2-3x more than most indie tech business people put together.

True but what percentage of techies work for Google?

> It looked like a post of yours got deleted a few days ago by the lib thought police here.

Thanks, I don't recall which post but I don't remember posting anything controversial.  Assholes
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
August 12th, 2017 10:54pm
> Speaking of profound, one has to read the "Economics in one lesson" written in the 40s

That is an excellent book.
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
August 12th, 2017 10:56pm
> Or let's say you want to sell your services to big corporation. The government will still screw up with the market forces through things like reverse discrimination.

> So what can you do in this situation?

Yes the book is a bit dated, but still useful if one is not already familiar with the material..

Too bad he isn't around to write an updated version.
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
August 12th, 2017 11:07pm
>If you can successfully sell someone something they don't want and don't need, you're a crook. But they're stupid, too.

Capitalism is built on selling shit to people that don't need it.
Permalink libtard_uk 
August 13th, 2017 2:46am
Didn't Harry Browne write that book on finding freedom in an unfree world? I haven't read it but some people seem to treat it as their bible.
Permalink libtard_uk 
August 13th, 2017 2:48am
Yes he did, it's sort of a how to live your life the libertarian way.
Permalink , Cup 
August 13th, 2017 4:03am
> Most IT people never understand what their customers really want, because of distractions. To name a few: other developers; industry trends, news, and memes; and the baggage of having to envision each project as a resume stepping stone rather than a customer-needs fulfillment project.

Boom! True true true
Permalink Bunker 
August 13th, 2017 10:47am
Most customers don't really understand what they want either.  Until the developer delivers exactly what they SAID they wanted, whereupon they realize that's not it.

Rinse and repeat as needed.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
August 14th, 2017 11:14am
OK, finished. It's one of those books that is a good book in need of a good editor - some parts are good and other parts parts are repetitive and consequently a slog. Definitely worth a read and a marking out of the good bits. Also, it echoes sentiments expressed in How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World.
Permalink , Cup 
August 14th, 2017 9:37pm

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