Give ne back my hat!

MLS

When you list a home on MLS you have to state the commission that you'll pay the buyer's agent. It is recommended that you look at the other houses in your area and outbid them.

So the next time you are listening to the advice of a buyer's agent (if anyone actually does anymore, the role being somewhat anathema now), carefully consider their actual motives.
Permalink Simulacrum 
July 14th, 2017 3:36pm
Oh and seller agents bid down, because the person directly paying is aware of it. For buyer agents you have to bid up. How archaic.

A buyer agent has astonishingly little motivation to actually serve their client.
Permalink Simulacrum 
July 14th, 2017 3:37pm
You can't trust agents at all. They are compulsive liars.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 14th, 2017 3:40pm
Realtors as a whole are extremely dishonest in a studied way, to the point of selling their family members into human trafficking if it means they achieve their sales goals. Just learn the numbers that apply and do your homework.

I never really got the concept of buyer's agent. The realtor and/or co-op brokers are always paid by the seller. Therefore by definition the buyer's agent is still a fiduciary of the seller. House was contaminated by meth cooking and is on top of a desecrated Indian burial ground? No problem, and no need to disclose unless the law demands it.

Fuck those fuckers.
Permalink Bored Bystander 
July 14th, 2017 3:40pm
If I was on a jury where someone was accused of brutally torturing and killing their real estate agent it would be a big challenge for the prosecution to convince me that it wasn't justified.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 14th, 2017 3:51pm
^ Word
Permalink Bored Bystander 
July 14th, 2017 3:54pm
I have so many stories.

As an engineer, I've had to move around a lot over my career. That means a lot of selling and buying houses. Renting makes more sense but I like doing renovations and painting stuff the color I want, and putting in new cabinets and floors, none which is possible with renting.

So I have a lot of experience with realtors and it's all about lies and duplicity on their part. Buyer beware indeed.

Don't trust any inspector or appraiser that you pay who was recommended by the agent or lives close enough to be in her social circles. That inspector or appraiser will LIE too and work to represent the agent even though you are the one paying them!

Here's a sordid tale. About 40 years ago I was about to bite on a place in the country in New Jersey with about 10 acres, for horses which my girl at the time was into. I'd made an offer. The agent showed me a pile of bricks and trash a couple hundred yards from the house and asked me to sign off on a form acknowledging that I'd been shown some waste on the property and was OK with it. It was inconsequential and would only take a couple trips to the dump to clean up so it didn't seem like a big deal. Before signing though I decided to fully walk the property. Turned out the previous owner had accepted money from the mafia to allow toxic industrial waste be dumped in a ravine on the property, several hundred tons worth, most in 50 gallon drums marked "hazardous waste". That was what I would have really been taking legal responsibility for.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 14th, 2017 3:59pm
"I never really got the concept of buyer's agent."

Back in the old days where realtors actually did work for you, had access to the information, etc, it was logical albeit dishonest with the hidden incentives.

Now, though, it's just farce. You pour over the houses that you like, choose areas, get all of the details, get to know the reasonable pricing, etc, and then when you buy a house you have to sign up one of these guys who then impose a tens of thousands of dollars tax on the deal.

I've never had an agent provide any value at all.
Permalink Simulacrum 
July 14th, 2017 4:00pm
Forgot a detail, the thing that made me look more closely was  the property was on a well and I had the water tested. The test results came back that the water was highly polluted not only with chromium and lead levels thousands of times above safe, but radiation as well! So I took a closely look and good thing I did. Even if I hadn't found the true dump site though I would have killed the deal based on the water test results. The agent, upon seeing the results, said it was normal for the area!
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 14th, 2017 4:02pm
Oh, and I later found out that the last three renters of the property all died of cancer!
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 14th, 2017 4:03pm
In the UK, only the seller pays the agent. The buyer doesn't.
Permalink Yoda 
July 14th, 2017 4:17pm
Here the seller generally pays both the selling and buying agents. That's where it is a profound conflict of interest.

And of course the buyer *is* paying that. When someone makes an offer outside of agents, you discount accordingly. It does get wrapped in the price.
Permalink Simulacrum 
July 14th, 2017 4:36pm
The "Buyer's Agent" is, by definition, working for the buyer and is to be paid by the buyer, not the seller.  Of course everything in a real estate sale is negotiable including sales commissions, closing costs etc.  Who finally pays is usually who is more desperate for the sale to complete, the seller or buyer.
Permalink ps 
July 14th, 2017 4:43pm
They DO have "Buyer Agents".  But typically the agent working for a buyer is also a "seller agent".  He/she gets paid from the SELLER'S proceeds.

A true "buyer agent" gets paid by the buyers.  This is unusual in America, but does happen, but isn't the typical arrangent.

So buyers need to know this.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 14th, 2017 9:13pm
Basically, the agents control access to the listing service ("MLS").  The Internet hasn't disrupted that.  No website has been able to get more than a tiny % of the listings.

The real estate agents are basically the same class of hustler as a contingency-fee headhunter.  They only get paid if they close the sale.  They aren't going to risk a sale for an extra 1%-2%.

Do you realize how many times I listened to an idiot with his brilliant idea for a real estate listing website?  He always hired an outsourcing company to do it, it's almost done, and they just need someone to do the final 5% of work so it can go live and they start raking in their millions.
Permalink FSK 
July 15th, 2017 12:15am
And using the lawyer/appraiser recommended by the real estate agent is as brilliant as using the lawyer recommended by your VC.

They lawyer/appraiser is looking for repeat business.  Of course he's willing to sell you out in the hope of repeat business from the real estate agent.  He's only dealing with you ONCE, but he's expecting to deal with that real estate agent again in the future.
Permalink FSK 
July 15th, 2017 12:18am
Exactly.

But also if he is in the area at all the agent has connections.

I had an appraiser give a reasonable appraisal of a property that had been on the market a while, which was a bit below their asking price. It meant that the bank wouldn't issue the mortgage without them adjusting the price. The agents both went ballistic. The appraiser told me, "The agents both called me and said I'd never work in that county again. Good thing I don't normally work in that county."
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 15th, 2017 8:04am
"They DO have "Buyer Agents".  But typically the agent working for a buyer is also a "seller agent".  He/she gets paid from the SELLER'S proceeds. "

That is a clear conflict of interest and is against the law in my State and will cost the agent his/her license if reported and investigated.  I have a real estate license and your statement is a bunch of crap.  Unless it is negotiated otherwise, the buyer's agent is paid by the buyer.
Permalink ps 
July 15th, 2017 8:44am
In a real estate deal the buyer wants the lowest price possible while the seller wants the highest price possible.  Both want the best deal from their point of view.  These are conflicting goals.  A real estate agent cannot represent both sides of the same deal.  When a buyer agent is involved in a deal (which is actually infrequent) , there are actually two agents, one representing the buyer and one representing the seller.
Permalink ps 
July 15th, 2017 9:00am
There are agents on both sides.  But the agent isn't going to risk his $50k commission by negotiating a slightly better deal for his side.
Permalink FSK 
July 15th, 2017 12:56pm
"There are agents on both sides.  But the agent isn't going to risk his $50k commission by negotiating a slightly better deal for his side."

For a 50K commission at 7% you are talking about a property selling in the range of 700K.  In most parts of the US, that is not the average house sale price unless you are in a high cost area like New York, San Francisco etc.

It is the agent's job to get the best deal possible for his client.  The final decision belongs to the client.  If the client has set an unrealistic price expectation, the agent may be screwed if the agent can't talk the client to a more realistic price expectation.  But the agent will know, based on price comps whether there is a problem.
Permalink ps 
July 15th, 2017 3:18pm
ps, FSK lives in Manhattan.

As you are a real estate agent I don't trust anything you say any farther than I can toss you, then fill your limp body full of hundreds of bullets as your blood drains into the dirt.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 15th, 2017 5:02pm
"It is the agent's job to get the best deal possible for his client."

If that is the agent's job and if the client is the buyer, then no agents do their jobs.

Agents don't follow that rule. The rule agents follow is to maximize their own gain, at any cost, including compulsive lying.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 15th, 2017 5:03pm
Gee, I don't know who the fuck "ps" is, but such categorical abusive statements aren't worth much.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 15th, 2017 6:37pm
This is Idiot, right? Off his meds again.
Permalink Yoda 
July 16th, 2017 10:23am
Coming here and announcing you are a real estate agent takes some balls. It's like coming here and announcing you are an ISIS soldier.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 16th, 2017 10:42am
An ISIS soldier and a pedophile.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 16th, 2017 10:43am
Of course real estate agents are worse than either of these, and much less reliable.
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 16th, 2017 10:43am

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