I keep hearing about this Geocities thing. Maybe some day I will try it.

What time is it?

http://observer.com/2017/07/bernie-sanders-most-popular-politician/

Bernie-would-have-won-oclock
Permalink MS 
July 11th, 2017 7:48pm
Hillary was massively popular before she ran.

And this will end your 2020 dreams:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/feds-ramp-up-investigation-into-jane-sanders.html
Permalink Shylock 
July 11th, 2017 7:50pm
Does anybody really KNOW what time it is?

Does anybody really care?

Trump won because the Russians jiggered the voting machines, or the counting machines.

There's no "evidence" for this yet.  But there will be.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 11th, 2017 8:02pm
Love your posts Hubble. Keep up the good work!
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 11th, 2017 8:05pm
Hey, here's a thought.

What if Trump Jr.'s "released emails" are complete frauds?  What if there IS an email that says something like that, but Trump Jr. released a "fake mail" that's a fraud?

So, in a day or two, Trump Jr. can reveal the 'fake mail' is fake -- claim it's made up or something.  That way, he'll discredit the investigation, and cover-up any REAL email that's still out there.

Or maybe they're simply not that smart.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 11th, 2017 8:14pm
Jr. is definitely not that smart.
Permalink Shylock 
July 11th, 2017 8:15pm
"maybe they're simply not that smart"

Not as smart as Hubble and Shylock, that's for sure! You guys have got them pegged!
Permalink Pestular Croaker 
July 11th, 2017 8:18pm
≥Hillary was massively popular before she ran.

AHAHAAAHHHAHAHAAAAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Permalink MS 
July 11th, 2017 8:40pm
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/22/hillary-clinton/hillary-clintons-approval-rating-secretary-state-w/

"In two polls taken in 2011 and 2012, she was viewed favorably by 66 percent, making her more popular than President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden."
Permalink Shylock 
July 11th, 2017 9:02pm
Yeah, sure, popular to Democrats.

Republicans HATED her.

So, depends on where you're coming from.

If it's Fox-News, EVERYONE hated her -- because that's Fox-News alt-facts.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 11th, 2017 9:03pm
Is it...time to bust a rhyme?

Time to shoot a mime?
Permalink Onski 
July 11th, 2017 9:22pm
> Trump won because the Russians jiggered the voting machines, or the counting machines.

Yeah, there's no way this country could be full of total idiots who vote.
Permalink Wabi-sabi 
July 11th, 2017 9:31pm
Trump Jr's nickname is "Fredo" (from Godfather).
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 6:14am
Re the Jane Sanders investigation: even if it's overblown for political reasons, it does tarnish Bernie at least with the "incompetent when running a small college" stigma (yes, I know it's his wife who ran the college, but it will still stink).
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 6:16am
And Sanders has trouble reaching out beyond the white disenchanted youth ("Bernie bros"). Middle class didn't trust him. Ethnic minorities massively refused to back him. He's got this "angry old white man" written all over him.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 6:31am
The idea that the US will elect a 79 year old socialist Jew from a tiny New England state with a corrupt wife (whether she actually broke laws or not, it's still shady and the fascist media will obsess over it) is a ludicrous and dangerous delusion.

FFS he couldn't even get the most votes from Democrats.

IIRC Bernie didn't release his tax returns either.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 7:03am
Keep telling yourselves that somehow the most liked politician in the country would do worse than the least liked candidate to ever run for the office. Jim Webb would have fucking won.
Permalink MS 
July 12th, 2017 9:50am
Hillary Clinton was once the most liked politician in America.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 9:59am
"Keep telling yourselves that somehow the most liked politician in the country"

He never had the full force of the right-wing media targeted at him. They focused on Hillary Clinton.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 10:21am
Exactly my point.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 10:42am
American left will not be saved by Sanders, they need someone like Corbyn. Corbyn had the full force Murdoch media empire in the UK going after him since 2015. He only emerged stronger because of that, and Murdoch's hold on UK politics is weaker now. Bernie is a weakling in comparison to Jezza.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 10:49am
Yup. Bernie will fold like a towel when the fascists turn their attention to him, instead of trying to help him.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 10:55am
Can US have a Better Bernie?

Besides the stuff which has been said about female and minority vote, Bernie 2.0 will have to:

1. find powerful allies (e.g. labour unions, NGOs, some media sympathetic to him) - online supporters are very important, but he needs some INSTITUTIONS to back him as well
2. gain influence in the Democratic Party
3. only then think about going for presidency

I know that US and UK politics are different, but Bernie's fatal weakness was that he was an outsider in the Democratic Party, with no allies on the inside. (Trump was also an outsider, but I suspect many GOP officials silently supported him, and - importantly - Trump had unlimited money). Bernie 2.0 will need to convince at least a faction of Democrat career politicians to back him, or he won't survive the primaries.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 11:01am
Indeed. All of that is true, which is a big reason we have never had a real left in this country. We've come close a few times, but not really.

You are missing one thing which would doom Bernie from the start, something I harp on all the time. Our peasants, the rural white population, are electorally privileged and it is a stretch to think that they would get so disillusioned with the Republicans that they would vote for Bernie.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 11:29am
You need to more EC votes elsewhere. How did Obama win?
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 11:31am
" All of that is true, which is a big reason we have never had a real left in this country. We've come close a few times, but not really. "

Indeed, UK had a real left for decades, which reshaped the country after 1945.

But, you know, Sanders is nowhere near as socialist as Corbyn is. Sanders didn't advocate the nationalisation of any industry.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 11:33am
How big is that rural population and what part of the electoral power do they represent?

Currently Trump got (~)23% of the electorate.

As long as you cannot collect support of even one third of the electorate, I don't think a political movement can credibly blame its defeat on a regional weight system.

For close fights gerrymandering is much more significant, but that seems inherent to a district system.
Permalink Lotti Fuehrscheim 
July 12th, 2017 11:36am
A Wyoming vote for President has 3.67x the power of a California vote for President.

This guy did the math, if you're interested:

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/22/13713148/electoral-college-democracy-race-white-voters
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 11:47am
Well, Hillary got ~3 million more votes than Trump did (not counting those prevented from voting by Republican vote suppression schemes). The only reason Trump is President is because of rural state electoral privilege.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 11:48am
A rural vote may count more than an urban vote, but how many are they in total?

Even Democrats and Republicans together didn't get a majority.

Both represent a small minority of the population.
Neither of them can claim a democratic mandate, because together they hold on to the system that gives them the structure to divide power.
Permalink Lotti Fuehrscheim 
July 12th, 2017 12:01pm
"This guy did the math, if you're interested:

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/22/13713148/electoral-college-democracy-race-white-voters"

I remember similar discussions from the time of the Lisbon Treaty which assigned numbers of votes to EU countries. There is more than 1 way to calculate the voting power.

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040526/full/news040524-5.html
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 12:04pm
That's how it works here. If you win, you claim a mandate, even though you might have gotten less votes than your opponent. We also have a long and sordid history of voter suppression.

We are not a European nation, even though most of the country can trace their history back to Europe. Let that go Lotti.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 12:04pm
>You need to more EC votes elsewhere. How did Obama win?

He overcame the Republican advantage. He did get over 50% of the popular each election, the first time that's happened since Eisenhower IIRC.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 12:05pm
So it is a fight between two mobs than that is fought over the rules of engagement rather than over political issues.
Permalink Lotti Fuehrscheim 
July 12th, 2017 12:08pm
Kind of both. There are profound political differences between the parties but yeah, it's a business. Like everything else in this country.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 12:09pm
"There are profound political differences between the parties "

Like what? Both are free market ultras.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 12:40pm
The white Dems in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania that voted for Trump because Clinton kissed Wall Street ass would have happily voted for Sanders instead.
Permalink MS 
July 12th, 2017 12:48pm
>Like what? Both are free market ultras.

Health care.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 1:12pm
Health care.

GOP: 50 million people should be uninsured.

DNC: 20 million people should be uninsured.

Sanders: 0 people should be uninsured.
Permalink MS 
July 12th, 2017 1:36pm
Yes, I would like to have Bernie's health care plan. Unfortunately, it's about as likely as getting the EC abolished. Don't forget, he's never actually accomplished anything in the Senate.

If the choice is between 50 million uninsured and 20 million uninsured, and those are your only options, which one do you take?
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 1:41pm
Single payer got wrecked not only because GOP didn't want it, but also because centrist Democrats didn't want it.

Like I said, free market ultras.
Permalink Yoda 
July 12th, 2017 2:21pm
Yeah, certainly, both parties are capitalist. No doubt about that.

One is just a whole lot smarter about than the other.
Permalink Shylock 
July 12th, 2017 2:30pm
Dems killed single payer in California all by themselves.
Permalink MS 
July 12th, 2017 2:57pm

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