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I can't sleep since I've been dieting - part 2

http://crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=325578&Posts=23

Sorry haven't been here in a few days, a couple responses I wanted to address:

> You're dieting too hard.  Just eat reasonable amounts of quality food, man.

> @dieting: what you describe seems to be a combination of excessive cortisol (from stress, overtraining) and lack of serotonin. Your nerves are shot. Consuming more calories especially carbs after your workouts will help.

I think you guys are right.

I upped the calories/carbs this weekend and then yesterday as well and felt good all day yesterday UNTIL the evening when I restricted carbs at dinner (75g or so).  And then I had some trouble sleeping (waking up a few times - got about 5 hours total). 

The night before, when I had more carbs in the evening - approx 110g, I slept better, about 6 hours non-stop.

The USDA recommends 45-65% carbs.  My needs are perhaps in the higher end of that.  I've been trying different diets like The Zone, 33% carbs and that's just not enough as I tend to drag ass.

I need plenty of carbs during the day (to stay energized) and ate night (so I can sleep through the night). 

The problem with that?  I could see myself slowly gaining weight if I'm not careful. 

I'm going to try and keep calories down (but higher than before) and eat about 60-65% carbs and see how I do on that.  Hopefully I don't gain too much wait.

And THEN I will need to re-evaluate my workout program and make sure I'm not overtraining.  The two full body
"go all out" weight workouts plus the cardio sessions burned me out while restricting calories.  I'm thinking either two weight workouts, a split routine, one day upper body and other day lower body.  In addition to this, ditch the cardio and do more walking and get more general physical activity for now to hopefully burn calories and not overexert myself.

Does that make sense?
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 11:45am
Not an expert in this but it does make sense...

It's not only about calorie counting, it's about the signaling of hormones. Sleep and stress have very profound effects on metabolism.

If you are doing cardio just to lose weight, you might want to re-think how you're approaching that. Keeping your workout sessions (including weights) short and intense will also burn fat, without pushing you into overtraining zone.
Permalink NPR 
February 14th, 2017 12:00pm
Yes.

But fuck the USDA.  They've been saying fats in food create fat in your body, when it's SUGARS in food (and 'too many' carbs) that create fats in your body.

Thus kicking off the "low-fat" craze, where to make stuff taste good with all the fats removed, they add, that's right, SUGAR.

They've been saying cholesterol in eggs creates cholesterol in your blood -- where there's no connection there at all.

The USDA 'advice' about foods is how we've become the obese nation we are.  Don't use USDA advice about foods, they're mired in 1950's pseudo-science still recommending low-fat diets.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:02pm
I lost a lot of weight about 8 years ago.  I've kept it off, but it isn't easy.  I kept thinking once I get to the weight I want to be, it will be easy to maintain.  Well, I'm there, but it isn't easy.  I'm always hungry and I can't eat anything extra.  If I do, I have to figure out where to cut back that extra amount I took in. When you already eat very little, it's difficult to cut back even more.
Permalink Send private email Mountain_Dewd 
February 14th, 2017 12:15pm
Similarly, the pendulum has swung the other way, accepting fats but demonizing carbs. The anti-carb people are citing psuedoscientific analysis to justify their views. For example, the book Grain Brain says wheat is the devil because wheat gets converted into sugar, and sugar is bad, therefore all grains are bad. In fact, whole grains have been shown to have protective effects and consumption of whole grains is correlated with better outcomes.
Permalink NPR 
February 14th, 2017 12:15pm
The biggest reason I consume too many calories is snacking, followed by drinking alcohol.

Recently I adopted a more traditional, strict 3 meals per day approach and stopped drinking beer except for social occasions. We'll see how that goes.
Permalink NPR 
February 14th, 2017 12:17pm
I'm eating a lot of bread, therefore carbs. And lard, milk cream, pig under various forms, therefore fat. And I'm thin.

Not really 3 meals a day though but rather 2. In the morning it's coffee then maybe some snack (like a cheeseburger from Mac :) if I get hungry before lunch. Maybe it's the metabolism though, my father is also thin.
Permalink Io 
February 14th, 2017 12:27pm
> Not an expert in this but it does make sense...

Is anybody?  I've spent years reading books, magazines, blogs, websites....and there is so much conflicting information. 

> It's not only about calorie counting, it's about the signaling of hormones. Sleep and stress have very profound effects on metabolism.

True.  And if one area goes haywire, that can affect everything else which leads to a vicious cycle.

> If you are doing cardio just to lose weight, you might want to re-think how you're approaching that. Keeping your workout sessions (including weights) short and intense will also burn fat, without pushing you into overtraining zone.

I'm debating whether to take this approach (short, intense, less than 30 min workouts) or more/higher volume workouts that are not as taxing (more frequent weight workouts but not going to failure, lots of walking instead of traditional cardio, etc).  As much as I wish I could get an answer as to what works best, everybody is different, and I guess I'm going to have to experiment to find what works best for me.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:30pm
> But fuck the USDA.  They've been saying fats in food create fat in your body, when it's SUGARS in food (and 'too many' carbs) that create fats in your body.

> Thus kicking off the "low-fat" craze, where to make stuff taste good with all the fats removed, they add, that's right, SUGAR.

> They've been saying cholesterol in eggs creates cholesterol in your blood -- where there's no connection there at all.

You bring up some good points.  Substituting sugar and simple carbs for fat isn't a good thing.

But keep in mind that there are 9 calories to a gram of fat (good or bad) and 4 calories to a gram of carbs.

I really started to gain weight once I started eating more "good fats" (i.e. nuts and the like).  I'm going to try 60% carbs (mostly complex), 20% protein, 20% fat and see how that goes.  The Zone (30% protein, 40% carbs, 30% fat had me drained.  And keto?  Forget it.

Some people do well on low carb (i.e. keto) but I'm not one of them.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  I seem to do better on more carbs, at least as far as energy goes, I'll have to wait and see how that translates to the scale in a few weeks lol.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:36pm
> I lost a lot of weight about 8 years ago.  I've kept it off, but it isn't easy.  I kept thinking once I get to the weight I want to be, it will be easy to maintain.  Well, I'm there, but it isn't easy.  I'm always hungry and I can't eat anything extra.  If I do, I have to figure out where to cut back that extra amount I took in. When you already eat very little, it's difficult to cut back even more.

Maybe your metabolism took a hit?  Your body got used to lower calorie level and thinks it doesn't need more.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:38pm
> Recently I adopted a more traditional, strict 3 meals per day approach and stopped drinking beer except for social occasions. We'll see how that goes.

That's another debate, 3 meals vs. 6 small meals.  They say the 6 smaller meals keeps your metabolism on its toes but I'm not sure I buy it.

I don't know it really matters.  Maybe for some people it does.  I haven't noticed a difference, I used to do 5-6, now 3 meals and a snack.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:39pm
I have a hard time knowing when to stop eating, if I try for more than three meals a day.

And yes, it's the snacking that adds "empty calories" -- lots of carbs for very few vitamins/minerals/proteins.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:42pm
> I'm eating a lot of bread, therefore carbs. And lard, milk cream, pig under various forms, therefore fat. And I'm thin.

That's what this Matt Stone guy (the author of that book I referenced in the other thread) recommends to chronic dieters who hit the wall.  According to him, more carbs and fat (including saturated fat) can get one's metabolism back on track.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:43pm
> I have a hard time knowing when to stop eating, if I try for more than three meals a day.

Eat until you get full?

> And yes, it's the snacking that adds "empty calories" -- lots of carbs for very few vitamins/minerals/proteins.

A lot of the carbs I've added have been rice and "cream of rice" cereal (cream of wheat but rice instead).  I guess one can argue that rice add empty calories.  I feel more energetic though so it must not be completely useless.  The Japanese eat a lot of rice and they stay thin.

I did notice that 1 cup of Cream of Rice contains 70% of what they say should be one's daily iron consumption.

I ate 3 cups for breakfast.  I read somewhere that too much iron is bad for you.  It gets into your blood and if there is too much, the only way to remove it is to bleed or donate blood lol.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:46pm
Fats have more calories per gram, but fats are more "satisfying" per gram, so you tend to eat less of them.

Carbs have fewer calories per gram, but they're not very "satsifying".  So you can easily eat 1,000 calories of potato-chips or tortilla-chips or (God help me) ice-cream at a sitting -- where 300 calories of ham or butter or cheese would make you feel full.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:47pm
I did eat some eggs with the Cream of Rice (and honey!)

Apparently eating protein and fat with carbs keeps the blood sugar from going up too high.  I was careful to keep my fat/protein to carb ratio to a minimum (no more than 1.5 carb calorie to fat/protein calorie) than until the other day but perhaps I went too far with that.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:50pm
> Carbs have fewer calories per gram, but they're not very "satsifying".  So you can easily eat 1,000 calories of potato-chips or tortilla-chips or (God help me) ice-cream at a sitting -- where 300 calories of ham or butter or cheese would make you feel full.

Yes I'd feel feel but lack energy (at least in my case)

2 bowls of Cream of Rice and a few eggs keep me from getting hungry for a good 6 hours.  We are talking 800-900 calories though
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:52pm
And yes, there's "good carbs" and "empty carbs".

"Empty carbs" include sugar (sucrose, or fructose), processed potato products (potato-chips), processed corn products (tortilla-chips), processed wheat products (pretzels, Wonder-bread)

"good carbs" include less-processed foods -- baked potato, rice, some breads, beans, etc.

But you have to figure out what works for you, balancing "satisfaction" and feeling full with amount of calories.

And we haven't even talked about salt (yet another USDA fubar) or Monosodium-Glutamate (aka "Modified food Starch").  Or artificial sweeteners.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:53pm
> But fuck the USDA

LOL

Hubble bashing a government agency?  Really?
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
February 14th, 2017 12:53pm
Over food advice?  Definitely.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:54pm
Oh, and the effects of Marijuana.  Govt. advice there has been worse than useless.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 12:55pm
> "Empty carbs" include sugar (sucrose, or fructose), processed potato products (potato-chips), processed corn products (tortilla-chips), processed wheat products (pretzels, Wonder-bread)

Potato chips and tortilla chips?  Say it ain't so! :)  I did eat tortilla chips the last few days instead of almonds with lunch.  Not the healthiest choice but I have had more energy, once I stay consistently energetic, I'll look into substituting something else.

> "good carbs" include less-processed foods -- baked potato, rice, some breads, beans, etc.

Yes.  Some say rice is bad but I disagree.  I try to eat mostly good carbs.

> But you have to figure out what works for you, balancing "satisfaction" and feeling full with amount of calories.

Yep.  There is no one size fits all diet approach contrary to what people who make money selling workout progams/diets/supplements say.

> And we haven't even talked about salt (yet another USDA fubar) or Monosodium-Glutamate (aka "Modified food Starch").  Or artificial sweeteners.

I've noticed that my salt has been kept to a minimum.  Blood pressure issues run on one side of the family.  My blood pressure is good but I do wonder if I wasn't eating enough salt.  The author of that book mentioned something about people not eating enough salt can contribute to adrenal fatigue and the like.
Permalink no longer dieting 
February 14th, 2017 12:58pm
> Oh, and the effects of Marijuana.  Govt. advice there has been worse than useless.

I found marijuana bad for dieting. It triggers an urge to eat sweet things and lowers the self-restraint.

It also discourages to go out and move, and encourages a comfortable lazy lifestyle.

Otherwise I don't think there are major bad health effects, but I stopped using while I bring back my weight to the desired level.
Permalink Lotti Fuehscheim 
February 14th, 2017 1:31pm
True.  But US Gov't rules are that it's illegal.  Not to mention "Reefer Madness".
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 1:44pm
Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's "Hydrogenated Fats" that lead to 'bad cholesterol' in the arteries.

Turns out, if you take light plant-oils (corn-oil typically) and bubble hydrogen through them, the oils take up the hyrogen, become "hydrogenated", and become solid -- like Margarine.

But these oils don't digest well, and result in the creation of "bad cholesterol" which the body finds difficult to utilize.  So avoid hydrogenated oils if you can.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
February 14th, 2017 1:57pm
With regards to meal frequency, the eating frequent meals to "stoke the fire" advice seems to have been thoroughly debunked.

Eating fewer meals gives your body a chance to start burning fat. If you're always eating, then you never dip into fat reserves for energy. This tends to result in sugar being used for fuel, rather than fat.

Just eating 3 squares and eating an early dinner gives your body enough opportunity to burn fat without creating a starvation/emergency response. What tends to happen in non fat-adapted people is they get a dip in blood sugar, the adrenals release cortisol, which signals to the liver to dump sugar into the blood, and it's a roller coaster of sugar highs and lows. Ultimately, this leads to insulin resistance and weight gain as well as glycation reactions that damage arteries and accelerate aging. Stable blood sugar is the hallmark of healthy metabolism, and you get that when you eat balanced meals at regular intervals, with enough time in between to digest food.

Also, from what I've been finding, modern humans tend to fight natural circadian rhythms, which further inhibits digestion and fat metabolism. Digestion is strongest mid-day, and that's when we should eat our biggest meal.
Permalink NPR 
February 14th, 2017 4:51pm
And when digestion isn't working, undigested food particles can enter the blood and lymph and cause all kinds of problems aside from weight gain.
Permalink NPR 
February 14th, 2017 4:53pm

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